Let me see... Our religion has no worship of gods, the only ones mentioned are from manuscripts collectively known as the Vedas. But we are told specifically they are all unworthy of worship or reverence and so we reject them.
Instead, we follow the teachings of the Buddha, who we believe is the one who found the way to enlightenment and liberated himself from the samsara, which we are all doomed to suffer. The ultimate desire is we reach nirvana, to be relieved of the pain being unenlightened causes us. Until we do, we only can hope for suffering and pain— to live and die and repeat the cycle until we make it—if we ever make it, I guess.
So... maybe the more correct answer is we do acknowledge gods, but find these originators to be abhorrent and unworthy beings, only having caused us pain and suffering. Our goal is to best them and escape what they've wrought onto man.
[He can't exactly disagree with that line of thinking, even if it intrudes upon his metaphor. It's another reminder that this man doesn't always act he expects—not swearing him out, for one, even if expected it and would've begrudgingly accepted it.
But maybe that was for the best. He hums, thinking aloud.]
There is indeed a pattern throughout history, in which man has been taught to fear the gods. The gods, who exist so far above them; the gods, capricious and fierce, who cause pain, who bring suffering, who stand apart from their own creations. Siddhartha is a rare religious figurehead to walk a different path.
[He speaks with a great degree of familiarity on the subject, which begs the question of why he even asked to begin with.]
In my time, a union between a god and a man was considered taboo. Such a being that would result from it... what do you think they might be like?
[ As someone who walks a fine line in fascination with the Christian religion and its teaching, the treatment that many who are intolerant of the religion perhaps show just how awful and unworthy they believe the gods must be. It extends beyond simple normal blasphemy and allegiance to their own god(s), when the religious who persecute do so in the name of a religion that worships only a teaching that will get them to achieve a certain state of liberation.
Perhaps the merciless persecution of Christians, particularly the ones to come under "the child of the sun" who will unite the warring states, eventually... display just how evil and wrong the feeling is that a god be worshipped. A god that loves? One that has no wrath, will always forgive, will never abandon you in your darkest moments when you reach for him, even if you have turned on him and pushed him away countless times... this concept of such a deity is unheard of across most religions.
(What else would a dragon respond with to such an anomaly of defiance to reject everything before it other than fascination?)
Masamune actually does not wonder why Gilgamesh asks despite his knowledge. What Is does not equate to every mortal's interpretation. That's how you get any religion to be twisted and justify the unacceptable nature of man most reject on principle. How peaceful teachings can suddenly lead to war and unjust persecution. So, in light of that, for a union between a god and a mortal... It depends, he wants to say—says in his mind, but that, he imagines, also probably defeats the purpose of what Gilgamesh is trying to convey.
However, instead of simply giving a single word answer, he decides to think on it a little further, to offer something of more substance that focuses on the sole affecting condition for this talk: this offspring is the result of taboo to begin with, regardless of all else, and thus itself is the same. ]
Someone who... belongs nowhere by the viewpoint of either world, and they feel that they themselves are alien in regards to both humans and gods. They can't fit in, because they possess traits from the other kind that makes it impossible in both realms. I think they would be isolated and very alone.
A child of Misfortune.
[ ...and that's only the baseline concept, without any it colored by life or choice or any influence whatsoever. ]
You cannot blame the fire for its nature; it was born to destroy. All the records of this child, who soon became a man, speak of his wildness. This child, who soon became a man, who then became a tyrant... because he belonged everywhere and nowhere, he stood on his own, a great shadow cast behind him.
...he had one friend in all the world, and in the end, abandoned him as well.
[ On Masamune's end, his brow creases and silence hangs. He's trying to think of something to say effectively in response but it's not coming to mind. He finally answers, sounding a little helpless because these are useless pathetic words coming out of his mouth here but he can't think of anything else. ]
That's... not... I mean... maybe a little? I don't know but it's not what I felt was done out of spite. I just figured you did it because... you could.
I will not offer you any apologies. You do not want them and I've no desire to give them.
[Gilgamesh has been forced to bend, been shamed into bowing his head, but this is his absolute limit. He cannot show remorse for something that is inherent to his own existence. Wild, uncontrollable, blazing as the fire. Perhaps he was sentient, but that did not hinder his destructive tendencies in the slightest.
If anything, it only made them worse.]
The only fault you bear was in accepting a love you did not rightly know, because you are human, because you thought "I would like to belong".
[ he doubts only because they weren't that close when looked at properly. Masamune may have been a little smitten in the idea from the fantasy of their second meeting... but it was one instance.
His mouth feels dry, the back of his throat aches but he decides, just this once, because Gilgamesh is trying to communicate, he will try to also and hopefully clear the air. ]
It's the first "love" anyone's ever given me even if it was twisted or fake or anything else— I'll take what I can get and I'll accept my fault in that. It's my fault is I wanted to believe you so badly that I actually hoped you could do what you said, that you wouldn't get bored and lose interest. What's my fault is I let it bother me like I didn't know it was coming from the very start when you didn't.
I was jealous and hurt because I really just thought... maybe because of your life and everything you went through, too... being alone and always feeling like you were doomed to observe and never experience... that just maybe you would never cross the line of lying to me about keeping me and paying attention to me. That you wouldn't dismiss me when you got bored, that you really wouldn't discard or hate me no matter what. That you wouldn't bother to extend that towards me if it wasn't sincere in some way because why would you go that far to hurt me?
But, then our encounter in Campina helped me figure it out... and that was that I did something very wrong if your assumption was what it was. I missed something or otherwise failed to give you something, because it's clear after hearing you and Hakuno, after hearing Vietnam and Hakuno discuss you towards me, that they know there's a very different side of you that pushes them to think better of you.
I get it now. I don't like it, but I get it. I don't hate you or want you to suffer for what you did to me. This is about Hakuno and you. I am angry with you for hurting Hakuno, especially over something that didn't exist to begin with. If you make it up to Hakuno and she accepts you back, if your wife continues to praise you as trying to make progress, if you can at least keep them happy... then I'll be happiest with you. Do you understand?
[ But, overall? I really... think I would have just rather remained in your Gate locked away than deal the sting of hurt that I can't seem to get rid of. ]
[This time, when Gilgamesh smiles, Masamune will hear it in his tone.]
I always expected that a warrior of Edo would be vicious, cold-hearted. A machine built for battle. That is how most Servants to be, at least. Love and affection are not chief concerns for us. We are meant to hurt and to be hurt in turn, because we come from turbulent times and places of great misfortune.
[And he still strongly feels that any Masamune Date summoned by the Grail would conform to his expectations. And yet... there's at least one reality in which that isn't true. Something he did not foresee. Maybe he was also caught off guard, in the end. At any rate, it would seem he got what he was angling for: acknowledgment and a willingness to move ahead.
He wonders if Hakuno would still consider this sort of strategy self-serving, though.]
How did you turn out so differently? That even when someone strips you of all dignity, still you would say to them, "so long as everyone is happy"?
[ He sits, hugging his knees and playing with the Sphinx kitten that rolls around in front of him with a long feather it tries to catch. ]
Hn... Because, I'm a warrior during battle and on a battlefield, not off of it. They say I'm completely different on the battlefield, and it's not always for the better.
Besides, if I can't have what I really want, my choice is to wallow in it or suck it up and compromise somewhere, right?
[ he feels like he is being called squishy or something. ]
So don't get any weird ideas over it about me... or anything. I didn't get the reputation as the one-eyed dragon because I just like them or anything. [ /huff!!? ]
Heh! That's what you have a wife with long hair for. [ a master, too, if she's feeling generous... annnd a knight lady king, too. All these cute girls with long hair. ]
However lacking, I'm certain I could find a use for yours.
[Said master would kill him if she knew he was playing the flirtatious angle again. Thankfully, he's sure this is one conversation she'll never catch wind of.]
But as you will, Masamune. Perhaps I'll see you some other time.
[ She will not, especially considering Masamune doesn't see it as that. ]
That's very smooth, but you don't have to waste effort pretending, you know. I already said I would assist you where you require it.
[ His voice is at least friendly despite the accusation, he doesn't sound like he's holding a grudge or is as bitter as his confession made him sound. ]
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Instead, we follow the teachings of the Buddha, who we believe is the one who found the way to enlightenment and liberated himself from the samsara, which we are all doomed to suffer. The ultimate desire is we reach nirvana, to be relieved of the pain being unenlightened causes us. Until we do, we only can hope for suffering and pain— to live and die and repeat the cycle until we make it—if we ever make it, I guess.
So... maybe the more correct answer is we do acknowledge gods, but find these originators to be abhorrent and unworthy beings, only having caused us pain and suffering. Our goal is to best them and escape what they've wrought onto man.
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[He can't exactly disagree with that line of thinking, even if it intrudes upon his metaphor. It's another reminder that this man doesn't always act he expects—not swearing him out, for one, even if expected it and would've begrudgingly accepted it.
But maybe that was for the best. He hums, thinking aloud.]
There is indeed a pattern throughout history, in which man has been taught to fear the gods. The gods, who exist so far above them; the gods, capricious and fierce, who cause pain, who bring suffering, who stand apart from their own creations. Siddhartha is a rare religious figurehead to walk a different path.
[He speaks with a great degree of familiarity on the subject, which begs the question of why he even asked to begin with.]
In my time, a union between a god and a man was considered taboo. Such a being that would result from it... what do you think they might be like?
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Perhaps the merciless persecution of Christians, particularly the ones to come under "the child of the sun" who will unite the warring states, eventually... display just how evil and wrong the feeling is that a god be worshipped. A god that loves? One that has no wrath, will always forgive, will never abandon you in your darkest moments when you reach for him, even if you have turned on him and pushed him away countless times... this concept of such a deity is unheard of across most religions.
(What else would a dragon respond with to such an anomaly of defiance to reject everything before it other than fascination?)
Masamune actually does not wonder why Gilgamesh asks despite his knowledge. What Is does not equate to every mortal's interpretation. That's how you get any religion to be twisted and justify the unacceptable nature of man most reject on principle. How peaceful teachings can suddenly lead to war and unjust persecution. So, in light of that, for a union between a god and a mortal... It depends, he wants to say—says in his mind, but that, he imagines, also probably defeats the purpose of what Gilgamesh is trying to convey.
However, instead of simply giving a single word answer, he decides to think on it a little further, to offer something of more substance that focuses on the sole affecting condition for this talk: this offspring is the result
of taboo to begin with, regardless of all else, and thus itself is the same. ]
Someone who... belongs nowhere by the viewpoint of either world, and they feel that they themselves are alien in regards to both humans and gods. They can't fit in, because they possess traits from the other kind that makes it impossible in both realms. I think they would be isolated and very alone.
A child of Misfortune.
[ ...and that's only the baseline concept, without any it colored by life or choice or any influence whatsoever. ]
Like you.
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You cannot blame the fire for its nature; it was born to destroy. All the records of this child, who soon became a man, speak of his wildness. This child, who soon became a man, who then became a tyrant... because he belonged everywhere and nowhere, he stood on his own, a great shadow cast behind him.
...he had one friend in all the world, and in the end, abandoned him as well.
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[ he snorts. ]
If you really want to peddle it to me that way.
What is your point? That you can't help what you did to Hakuno?
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[Even he wouldn't try to backpedal around that.]
The actions taken towards you were not done so out of spite. Rather, that is the sort of "love" I offer anyone who comes so close to me.
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Admittedly, there's a lot that could be meant by that. ]
What you did to me?
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From one child of Misfortune to another—the only way to love is to love destructively.
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...You think I'm hurting from the incident in your Gate?
[ It's... the only thing he can think of that fits the description. ]
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That's... not... I mean... maybe a little? I don't know but it's not what I felt was done out of spite. I just figured you did it because... you could.
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[Gilgamesh has been forced to bend, been shamed into bowing his head, but this is his absolute limit. He cannot show remorse for something that is inherent to his own existence. Wild, uncontrollable, blazing as the fire. Perhaps he was sentient, but that did not hinder his destructive tendencies in the slightest.
If anything, it only made them worse.]
The only fault you bear was in accepting a love you did not rightly know, because you are human, because you thought "I would like to belong".
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[ he doubts only because they weren't that close when looked at properly. Masamune may have been a little smitten in the idea from the fantasy of their second meeting... but it was one instance.
His mouth feels dry, the back of his throat aches but he decides, just this once, because Gilgamesh is trying to communicate, he will try to also and hopefully clear the air. ]
It's the first "love" anyone's ever given me even if it was twisted or fake or anything else— I'll take what I can get and I'll accept my fault in that. It's my fault is I wanted to believe you so badly that I actually hoped you could do what you said, that you wouldn't get bored and lose interest. What's my fault is I let it bother me like I didn't know it was coming from the very start when you didn't.
I was jealous and hurt because I really just thought... maybe because of your life and everything you went through, too... being alone and always feeling like you were doomed to observe and never experience... that just maybe you would never cross the line of lying to me about keeping me and paying attention to me. That you wouldn't dismiss me when you got bored, that you really wouldn't discard or hate me no matter what. That you wouldn't bother to extend that towards me if it wasn't sincere in some way because why would you go that far to hurt me?
But, then our encounter in Campina helped me figure it out... and that was that I did something very wrong if your assumption was what it was. I missed something or otherwise failed to give you something, because it's clear after hearing you and Hakuno, after hearing Vietnam and Hakuno discuss you towards me, that they know there's a very different side of you that pushes them to think better of you.
I get it now. I don't like it, but I get it. I don't hate you or want you to suffer for what you did to me. This is about Hakuno and you. I am angry with you for hurting Hakuno, especially over something that didn't exist to begin with. If you make it up to Hakuno and she accepts you back, if your wife continues to praise you as trying to make progress, if you can at least keep them happy... then I'll be happiest with you. Do you understand?
[ But, overall? I really... think I would have just rather remained in your Gate locked away than deal the sting of hurt that I can't seem to get rid of. ]
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I always expected that a warrior of Edo would be vicious, cold-hearted. A machine built for battle. That is how most Servants to be, at least. Love and affection are not chief concerns for us. We are meant to hurt and to be hurt in turn, because we come from turbulent times and places of great misfortune.
[And he still strongly feels that any Masamune Date summoned by the Grail would conform to his expectations. And yet... there's at least one reality in which that isn't true. Something he did not foresee. Maybe he was also caught off guard, in the end. At any rate, it would seem he got what he was angling for: acknowledgment and a willingness to move ahead.
He wonders if Hakuno would still consider this sort of strategy self-serving, though.]
How did you turn out so differently? That even when someone strips you of all dignity, still you would say to them, "so long as everyone is happy"?
[He sounds baffled. But pleasantly so.]
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Hn... Because, I'm a warrior during battle and on a battlefield, not off of it. They say I'm completely different on the battlefield, and it's not always for the better.
Besides, if I can't have what I really want, my choice is to wallow in it or suck it up and compromise somewhere, right?
[ he feels like he is being called squishy or something. ]
So don't get any weird ideas over it about me... or anything. I didn't get the reputation as the one-eyed dragon because I just like them or anything. [ /huff!!? ]
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[That went better than expected. For once, he decides to quit while he's ahead.]
You know, there is a festival in Tel'Adre today. The people of this world are celebrating spring. I thought you might like to come.
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Ha? And how exactly are they doing that?
[ the world capital of no decency necessary. ]
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[Well, it isn't a complete lie...]
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Like by using the stems to stick up people's butts or something?
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[Said master would kill him if she knew he was playing the flirtatious angle again. Thankfully, he's sure this is one conversation she'll never catch wind of.]
But as you will, Masamune. Perhaps I'll see you some other time.
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That's very smooth, but you don't have to waste effort pretending, you know. I already said I would assist you where you require it.
[ His voice is at least friendly despite the accusation, he doesn't sound like he's holding a grudge or is as bitter as his confession made him sound. ]
Enjoy your time with your flowers, Gilgamesh.
(no subject)